Professor Tony Ukam's Blog

Daily Independent

THERE IS CORRUPTION IN NBA TOO – UKAM

Another feather was recently added to the cap of Tony Ukam, a Calabar- based rights activist and lawyer. Precisely on August 20, 2011, he was conferred with the professor of Law by the European-American University. The conferment took place at the University’s 2011 convocation at the University of Ghana City Campus, Accra. His published works, according to the University authority formed the hallmark of consideration for the professorial appointment. The new status apparently become a booster of a sort as the former NBA Chairman of Calabar branch to an independent path without being swayed by what seems overwhelming sentiment on the Salami-Katsina-Alu jungle jugginh in the judiciary. In this exclusive interview with Special Correspondent Nsikak Ekanem, Professor Ukam also calls for sanitization of NBA, which he said is also infested with corruption. Excerpts:

Katsina-Alu’s tenure as CJN from the beginning to the end appears to be characterized more by controversy. His swearing-in generated controversy and later there was this inconsistency and later there was this inconsistency in his retirement age and then the feud between him and Salami which saw through his retirement from the Supreme Court. What is your take in all these?

It is true that some people are controversial and I am not surprise for people who are controversial. The reason is because if you know your right and you want to stand on your right and let the heavens fall there would be controversy. So, I see him as somebody who, may be, knows his right and know God and he is not afraid to stand on his right and defend his right to the end. But I must also say that we should not also forget that he may have suffered what he passed through because of the minority syndrome. We all have this problem. When you come from mi­ mi­nority there would be Boko Haram, when there is no minority there would be no Boko Haram. Today there is Boko Haram because Jonathan is on the throne. If there is no minority on the throne there would be no Boko Haram because what stops Buhari, Babangida telling those peo­ple to stop? We have people there in the north-Kaduna Mafia and the rest – who can just raise their eyes and the Boko Haram would stop. I believe that Katsina-Alu is a man that wants to stand on his right and secondly the minority problem may have also affected him. Don’t you think that had Katsina-Alu and Salami retire voluntarily at the early stage, it would have safe the ebbing image the Nigerian seems to be under-going currently?
It could have been a more honourable way. But I also believe mat this retirement of both is also better and therefore anybody going to court is not helping matter because it -is like not allowing the sleeping dog to lie because there are many people who cannot behold this crises going on and that both of them are retiring by one way or die other is better off. So lawyers who are fuelling and sponsoring going to court, I don’t know what they want because both of them have retired one way or the other. To me, we ought to have even encouraged resigna­tion.

One other issue that so many perceived as embarrassing in recent time was the verbal war between two retired Generals and Presi­dents – Olusegun Obasanjo and Ibrahim Ba­bangida. How are you reacting to their public behavious?

Yes! The way they polluted the air is enough to show that they were not polished in the first place.- And that alone shows that their owe Ni­geria a question and answer, Babangida made a statement that since Obasanjo left office there have been no air crash. So there is more to the air crash we had in the past than meet the eyes. Babangida knows arid ought to have told Nige­rians, arid he did not tell us; There are so many things they have said which means they know a lot and have been hiding them. They have caused a lot of problem in this country because from what I heard both of them saying at their level, it is enough to show that those people have never been polished in the first place. It is only a spell of the kind of leaders we have in the past because at the age it could have been the age of integrity, age of dignity,  age every body would be looking up to you for their fatherly advise, but see, it is unfortunate.

The judiciary in the current democratic dispensation has been hailed by so many as been the hallmark for deepening democracy in the  country. With  this development, should Nige­rians still have faith in the judiciary?

Nigerians should have faith! The judiciary has its bad eggs but I still cry in my heart every day that if Nigeria is having fresh air, if there is a Jonathan I would see when I am driving between Port Harcourt and Aba or when I am driving between Aba and Calabar. I would see Jonathan through the Nigerian Police standing on the road, not the type I saw some days ago with gun and terror collecting money by force at every kilometer interval from road users. As far as I am concerned, a police on the road is the window of Nigeria. Why? A Cameroonian is passing through that road, a Malaysian is passing through that road, and the Chinese is passing through that road. The mess they are seeing is horrible. Who would not believe they are a police man is making return to DPO, DPO to Commissioner, Commissioner is to AIG, AIG to IG; who would not believe that IG is making returns to the President of Nigeria. If not, why should they stand on the road with disdain, collecting money openly without fear? I have traveled to other countries, I have not seen this. If there is a Jonathan, if mere is a fresh air it should be seen in the conduct of police on our roads. When you talk of corruption it is everywhere; judiciary >has its own, there are bad eggs there. But what of the ones that are sick to high heaven and are seen openly. When you talk of corrup­tion in judiciary there are many bad eggs there. If you quote the law, quote cases they are angry, what they are looking for is money not the cases a bright lawyer is standing to quote. The more you quote cases the angrier some judges; become (laughs). The Bible says bribe blinds. So a police man collecting N20 and allowing you to carry human skull and kidnapped persons inside your boot. The moment he stops collecting it his eyes would open to do the right thing. And until the person head does not collect returns, the president does not collect monthly returns, until the IG stop collecting monthly returns from AIG, until AIG stops collecting monthly returns from the Commissioner of police, until Commissioner of police stops collecting monthly returns from the DPOs, then, and only the I would know that there is a fresh air and there is a Jonathan. Otherwise we are still in the same ball game.

The just concluded NBA Conference had as it theme: “Sustaining an enduring democracy for Nigeria”. Do you have faith after the conference that the legal profession collectively and individually stands a better chance of sustaining Nigeria’s democracy?

I believe that it was misdirection. You cannot be talking of “Sustaining and Enduring Democracy” when your house is on fire. So we should rather be talking about sanitizing the bar and the bench. To me, the theme of this year’s conference supposed to have been sanitizing the bar and the bench. When you finish with your house you can then go to the other. Moderately saying, about 40 or 60 per cent of the politicians in Nigeria are lawyers. And they are misbehav­ing drover there, carting away with our money. There is corruption in the NBA. NBA should be sanitizing itself first .The stands that you saw mere (at the NBA conference in Port Harcourt) that we spent only few days to sell few books they collect hundred thousand from you, would you riot translate it to  lawyers who are buying the books. Each lawyer is paying N20, 000 to register without accommodation and feeding. For what! Over 10,000 lawyers would register; the least registration is N10,000, some register N50,000  and as much as N150,000. NBA collect millions members for registrations. What are they using the money for the entire conference is being sponsored by governments and influential individuals? The NBA, during Olisa Agbakoba’s time as president, showed the list of sponsors at a glance. The NBA ought to have given free stands or at minimal rate so that when sellers bring their materials, lawyers who have paid for conference can now come and buy cheap books.
The book stands are hijacked and the books seller in older to make profit within three days conference would want to translate that money into the books so a book of N3,000 would be N5,000. Corruption is from there. As I am saying now I am their number one enemy. They would not be happy with me. I confronted them at Kaduna. Inside NBA, there is serious corruption, there is no accountability. Then they also extort money from all the books stands. Lawyers who after finishing law school and are practicing from one to five years suppose to go to conference free, they suppose to give them accommodation and feeding free. But when you go there you are on your own, security-wise, ac­commodation, everything! They are talking of sustaining democracy when our grandfathers in the judiciary are quarrelling and tearing themselves and the bar is tearing them. You ask your member not to go for the call to inner bar – SANship – and they went! Your house is not in  order. If you sanitize your house you cannot tell your son to stop and he moves.

How would evaluate the suspension of Jus­tice Isa Ayo Salami within the context of the law?

Within the context of the law, I want to believe that the most lawyers are misleading the public. I said misleading the public in the sense that we ought to inform the public concerning the position of the law. No matter the sentiment or background or what we stand to benefit, it is good to put the picture clear so that people would understand. There are certain statements or insinuation that are being paraded, even by some lawyers, that the situation is ca­pable of igniting feud or causing insurrection in the country. Right from the outset, I faulted Sa­lami; of course, every body is entitled to his own opinion. I faulted him in the sense that he has been given promotion to Supreme Court from the Court of Appeal and a reasonable, a respon­sible, a person of integrity would have said, “thank you, but I don’t need it”. And that would end the matter but you have been elevated and you say the elevation is not good enough and that you don’t want it, and you start exploding, you start opening cankerworms and saying so many things. The question an ordinary person would ask, a person who is not with them at whatever may be behind the scene, is: what has promotion got to do with the Sokoto issue or the electoral fraud or the Chief Justice asking him to do this or not to do that. They swore to an oath to maintain secrecy, that is why you go to government offices and you would see some places written, “out of bound”. In the judiciary it is even worst. We are not only stereotype in nature, we are very conservative, and we keep a lot of secrets. If in the official level there are cer­tain things that have passed, what has that got to do with promotion? To me, I see promotion and what ever happened in the past completely different I can not connect the two; I cannot see the provocation. I have been listening to Nigeri­ans; I have been listening to lawyers but I have not heard them break up this issue as to what is the relationship between promotion and Sokoto because some thing must provoke something; In promotion, whether it was to smite him or otherwise/ is that is sufficient for them to open the cankerworms? Is it sufficient for them so start disgracing themselves, swearing to an affidavit going to court and all that. We have seen even foreign countries promotion like that. If at the time he was promoted to Supreme Court they immediately substituted ruin and swore in another dislocate him from his t seat then he would have had the justification to say, “You snatch my seat from me”. And it without an alternative. To me, without even looking at all other area, I see that as a serious misconduct and this are the generation that are saying education has fallen in the younger gen­eration, that we have poor education, that the younger ones have damaged the legal profes­sion. But what are the elders doing? What are our grandfathers exhibiting? From that angle, I faulted Salami seriously that he did not do well even maintaining his integrity as a grandfather in the law. Secondly, the issue is not such that would have brought about this hullabaloo.
Again, coming to look at it that a superior gave you an order following a petition he received and the petition is against you and you want to and the petition is against you and you want to deliver judgment and administratively he said: ‘”hold on, let us investigate”. Is there anything wrong with it? I heard some lawyers the other day in either ATT or Channels saying that there is no law that says that you should stop judg­ment that once judgment is to be read that judg­ment must be read. That is true, but there is an administrative aspect that we have not looked into. If your reading the judgment would cause war should one still go ahead because the law says judgment should be read and there should be no stoppage! There are things that you use common sense. Somebody is the head of judi­ciary in Nigeria as a whole and has received pe­tition about somebody and that person is about to go and read judgment and he said, “hold on there is petition, let’s look into the petition and somebody is saying what power does he has to stop this judgment. We are looking at the other aspects that it takes two to tango. There are a lot of issues into this things, it is just the surface we are looking at. There are more into it and as far as he is the Chief Justice of Nigeria, he has the right to maintain the decorum and integrity of this nation. There are many things behind the scene that we do not see mat they do not even tell us. As far as the interest of the country is concerned we can make all the noise outside but when you go in there it is a different ball game altogether.
Coming to the NJC issue, some people are saying that it has no right to do this or that. But they have right to appoint but no right to recom­mend dismissal! The question is: why are they crying wolf after spilling die milk? If Salami did not submit to the jurisdiction of the NJC it could have been a different thing. But he submitted, This is a man who went to court when  he ought not to have gone to court. He has not exhausted local remedy. He is at that top and part of the NJC and you rush to court on an issue of promo­tion. I can’t understand what is going on! He did not first explore internal mechanism. He would have made all the noise, protest misbehavior and so on in the NJC, which he is a member and other Nigerian would not hear it. There are a lot of politics that are beyond all eyes but I would only comment on the one I know. Salami went to court, and NJC said come back and he ac­cepted; he submitted to their jurisdiction. Hav­ing submitted !o their jurisdiction he is bound by whatever decision is arrived at. And in any case, this is the body that owns them; he cannot be above the NJC. He was not the president of the Court of Appeal without the NJC. Again, I must say when they say apologize – apologize within days to the NJC and the CJN – he did not do that he went to court. There is difference be­tween apology and suspension. It was after the 7 days that he failed to apologize mat NJC came up again with a new punishment – suspension and recommendation to the president. What is in court is the issue of apology and not sus­pension. There are two different issues. Apart from that they should tell me the authority that says that while the case is in court every body’s hand is tied to the back; that when the case is in court NJC cannot operate again. There is no such law. Salami failed to do what was needful Even when the issue remains at the level of apology he ought to have rushed to court and say there be injunction retraining them  from  asking for apology from him or any other action. As far as NJC is concerned there is no injunction restraining them from doing anything. So nobody should accuse NJC that the case is in court and why should a body like it not respect court! They have shown good example as far as this matter is concerned. The NJC have been courageous. Most of the people complaining (including lawyers) are politicians who want one favour or the other from these people. I owe nobody any apology but I believe that they have really misled Nigerians because NJC as a body has been courageous to do what it should do. Are they now saying that one person is above Nigeria? His misbehaving from the outset was enough for him to have been penalized because every profession has their own ethics.  And it is even more in the law profession; there is more check and balance in the legal profession. Somebody who is the grandfather of the law could misbehave like that! There is nothing that the NJC did that is wrong in my own assessment. I believe that Salami failed to ask for injunction against them, and they have the tight to have recommended to the president for his suspension and even his retirement. Even dismissal! In any case, all those making  notice were saying that the two of them should go when these things started. Now that two of them have gone, why are they still shouting?

So it could be taken from you that President Goodluck Jonathan has done the right thing?

Yes! The president has the right to have acted on the recommendation of the NJC because there are two powers through which the presi­dent can act. Either through the two third of the National Assembly endorsing removal or NJC’s recommendation. So the president has no choice than to act after the NJC’s recommendation. It is just like NBA making recommendation then -the president who is not part of them would come and say “No”! What is his business? He is only to perform his constitutional duties and in this case he had followed patiently when the crises started till now. It was his best bet to have done that. And I am sure he did it very, very objec­tively without any bias. And that safe Nigeria and the face of the judiciary that no one person is above the law or Nigeria. We have greater se­rious issues to face. If a body that should be de­ciding matters should be the one fighting and quarrelling and not the junior ones now, it is even the worst. The earlier the nightmare pulls off from us the better. So the President acted in good faith.

What do you think would happen if Salami is reinstated? Chances are that PDP members may have distrust in him given that ACN ap­pears to have more sympathy for Salami?

That is why I say they have politicized the whole thing; we know that even the presidential case in court is a mere formality because should the tribunal hold a different view of what ev­ery body saw for the first time – a clean and fair election – then it would just be like striking a matches into a fire, to me, whatever they are do­ing there is just to improve the judiciary system and the electoral law. To say that the Tribunal would do something different is completely out of place. Is it easy for one, to rise in the minds of Nigerians as critical as we are? For the first time, the students, international observers and everybody could say the election was free and fair; it was adjudged as being a bit better than the previous one then you think the tribunal would say it is not so. Nigerians saw that there was, at least, a little credibility and we are mov­ing forward.

How do feel becoming Professor Tony Ukam?

I feel great because like when I was given Office of the Niger (OON) in 2005 I never lob­bied for it but work speak. My work is everywhere. I thank God that I am today a world class professor. I give God the glory that when my own community and state (Cross River State) want to kill me at all cost and demolished my property, when my own people cannot recognize me my God always pick me out and would not just give me local recognition but an international recognition. This is not the first time neither the second time, as you have in the record I was the first prosecution lawyer to have prosecuted a case from Nigeria to New York in the United State in 2007. I just want to thank God that all my work of over 20 of them in law and Christianity I am being recognized by the Europeans and the Americans. I give God the glory. I don’t regret that my own people refused to recognized me. It is an encouragement for me to continue to forge ahead. As a professor of law, I believer, by God grace, I am the first from Cross River State.

NBA collect millions members for registrations. What are they using the money for when the entire conference is being sponsored by governments and influential individuals? The NBA, during Olisa Agbakoba’s time as president, showed the list of sponsors at a glance. The NBA ought to have given free stands or at minimal rate so that when sellers bring their materials, lawyers who have paid for conference can now come and buy cheap books.